i’m curious what our children will so to some of our graves.

I don’t think this is something to brag about.

Australia’s gone through shit - from bush fires (that are worse every year) to the latest huge dust storm that turned Sydney orange.

I don’t believe in coincidences when they are disasters. Being stubborn just to prove a point is stupid when people start to be affected and die because of it.

People, who promise, they are able to stop climate change, are liars and frauds.

Just like the hero from the movie “Rainmaker” (starring Burt Lancaster).

They promise us the impossible to milk our wallets. If these liars lose political power, it is a good news for mankind.

We’re not talking about movies here. C’mon, nobody said climate change will be stopped as soon as an agreement is signed.

Except maybe for extremists (who are guided by anything but logic or common sense, regardless of the side they support) nobody else rules out the glacial and interglacial periods. Either we like it or not, nature keeps going on its own course.

Man however is also guided by greed and manages to screw with everything he touches, including with the environment. It would take years to repair what we screwed.

Obviously, some will win more, others will lose more. Obviously, there are interests that go beyond the obvious ‘greater good’ and ‘happy ever after, in peace with nature’, but doing nothing would only make things worse.

When you’re already poor, there’s no more wallet to milk. When the air you breath is no longer safe, there’s nowhere enough money that can buy extra oxygen.

Adela, as soon as we get any evidence, that our climate change is manmade, unusual, CO2 made or stoppable by humans… we will act upon that evidence.

Instead, the environmentalists want us to act upon faith, belief.

It is difficult to believe. Because the only evidence we have is the evidence about scientific fraud, silencing free speech, avoiding FoIA.

Well, I don’t believe in environmentalist or skeptic theories, I believe in what life taught me, in what I see and feel through my senses.

I first traveled by plane last October and not sooner, because I didn’t want to be just another one who pollutes simply because flights are more comfortable & time saving. When I had no other alternative, I also did it to save time.

I live in a country that has just started to recycle here and there, but I’ve been doing it for the last several years because I faced its benefits by mistake, but it makes sense & it’s obvious resources are not infinite.

I don’t even believe that we can stop global warming (maybe we will in another 100 years if we discover a sort of planet cure), but I think we can each do our own share of good to avoid self-destruction.

I don’t see any of my actions as based on some belief that others set upon me, simply because I question everything. But I believe that the planet’s natural state would still be balanced, if human greed wouldn’t have kicked in because this is what I have observed during all my life.

Good, Adela. Live your lifestyle, which you like. That is perfectly OK.

But it is not OK to force other citizens and countries (through laws and international treaties or cap-n-trade) to obey your life-style.

This is violence. Coercing others to comply with your faith. It is like forced conversion to Islam.

If you can persuade other people to live like you live, that is OK. If you force them by violence, it is not OK.

This is why I am happy, that Australia dropped the cap-n-trade taxing scheme. At least for this moment, Evil violence has been defeated. It is a reason for joy, I presume.

Another victory for common sense.

Liberals claim Higgins.

@Vitezslav your comparison between faschist religions and laws against climate change now not only is boring anymore - it gets really stupid and dangerous propganda.

you don’t happen to realize, that everyone who gives a fuck about climate change and unnessecarily drives around with his SUV, supports fossile energy production, or whatever does a lot more real violence to those who have to live with the consequences.

I don’t know what you people are so afraid about. Clean air? Healthy children? Sustainable living? Not wasting tons of ressources we don’t have without limits? Yeah, putting those things forward sounds dangerous and violent to me too.

So don’t even think about prohibiting people from indirectly killing millions of primarily poor people, as this violence cannot be accepted! We need to preserve production values from the 19th centuries, as it is our god given right to be plain stupid!

There is a structural advantage for cynics and sceptics like you and Mike in this debate: You just have to preserve status quo and can fantasize about violence and environmentalist faschism whenever one wants to do something about it.

But in fact it’s you and your friends from the necons, neoliberals, and big oil who really do the violence here, constanly trying to undermine science and common sense just to fucking preserve the right to blow toxic waste into our air and our lungs.

Please, go to some country whereever you think manmade climatechange is not happening and just live there long enough to feel the consequences of your “common sense”.

Tom
1) IPCC is not science. Climategate proves it. Also Hansen’s 1934 Y2k error proves it. I am not attacking science. I am defending it.

2) Climate change exists. It is absolutely normal. Our temperatures are not unique. In USA it is not warmer now than in 1930s. In Prague too. In MWP it was warmer. Extreme weather is normal - read the old chronicles or listen to your granny.

3) I do not want toxic polution around my house anymore than you do. But CO2 is not pollution, Tom.